[23:11:34]
<stellarorion> Matrix is whack IMHO. I haven't experienced this much pain with decrypting chats and sending files over matrix. Some old chats I have won't load/decrypt at all. Even though, all devices are online and properly connected
[23:13:24]
<Onkel Schnitzel> > Matrix is whack IMHO. I haven't experienced this much pain with decrypting chats and sending files over matrix. Some old chats I have won't load/decrypt at all. Even though, all devices are online and properly connected
I share your woes, mate
[23:13:37]
<Onkel Schnitzel> Xmpp is so much better
[23:14:12]
<stellarorion> It's not perfect, but it works 1000% better than Matrix LOL
[23:14:51]
<Onkel Schnitzel> Exactly!
[23:17:32]
<stellarorion> I remember I tried to setup my own server (because I've been told the unstable nature of Matrix is due to everyone using the same server. Which also tells a lot about how much of a spaghetti code it is.) and I couldn't figure it out... XMPP? Easy... You have like 2 servers you can chose from and I did it in 20 minutes or so
[23:24:25]
<Onkel Schnitzel> Spaghetti code probably and in the end getting the verification of chats done is spaghetti definatly, if not rocket science
[23:25:27]
<Onkel Schnitzel> Beside that, xmpp clients are usually very light, while matrix clients are little operating systems
[23:26:10]
<stellarorion> True
[23:32:04]
<just_a_rock> XMPP is definitely more mature, but it's drowning in technical debt. Matrix could have turned out much better than XMPP if the Matrix Foundation had its shit together & actually accepted contributions. I think they're about equally bad, but for their own reasons.
[23:32:57]
<stellarorion> Well said
[23:33:00]
<just_a_rock> I wish Signal would get rid of its phone number requirement. It's less reliable since it's centralized, but at least it's actually properly secured unlike both Matrix & XMPP.
[23:33:24]
<stellarorion> Have you heard about SimpleX Chat?
[23:33:33]
<stellarorion> Looks promising
[23:34:00]
<just_a_rock> I have. I don't really like users not being persistent though. It was missing a few other features I would like but I don't remember exactly what it was missing.
[23:34:39]
<just_a_rock> No account or ID system, so you can't put it in your social networking profile bio or something for people to message you.
[23:35:10]
<stellarorion> What do you mean by persistent? You can export the chat database and move it to a new device
[23:35:10]
<stellarorion> Oh!
[23:35:16]
<stellarorion> You can create links
[23:35:25]
<stellarorion> Invites to chat
[23:35:42]
<stellarorion> So you can share your profile on socials
[23:36:35]
<just_a_rock> > <stellarorion> What do you mean by persistent? You can export the chat database and move it to a new device
I mean like it's not an account that exists on a server until deleted by its owner.
[23:37:35]
<stellarorion> Huh? Isn't that a good thing?
[23:37:57]
<just_a_rock> It's good & bad. It depends on your use case.
[23:38:44]
<stellarorion> I'm not sure I understand your problem then
[23:38:51]
<just_a_rock> I want something that is guaranteed to stay online when I can't be online & act as a mailbox & can easily be messaged using some sort of address.
[23:39:17]
<stellarorion> You can totally do that
[23:40:21]
<stellarorion> You create an address link (temporary or not), send it and you will receive all chat even if you go offline
[23:40:43]
<just_a_rock> Having no identifiers is very practical for certain applications, but not for my purposes. I need an instant messaging system with an identifier system so it's easy to search & add friends as they create their accounts. Hyperlinks like you mentioned can do that, but are less practical than saying "my email address is stellarorion@stellar.net".
[23:41:27]
<stellarorion> Oh
[23:41:29]
<stellarorion> Well
[23:41:31]
<just_a_rock> I like how Matrix handles this & verification, at least in Schildichat.
[23:42:40]
<stellarorion> So you want usernames. Globally searchable usernames so you don't have to use long links. Impossible with the "no identifiers" model, but now I understand
[23:43:11]
<just_a_rock> aria-net.org is nearly always online, & my Internet connection isn't totally reliable. It's guaranteed that I can log in, put in my secret key, download & decrypt all my messages, & see what people have been sending me. If aria-net.org is down now, it's going to be up later, & other homeservers will resend messages to it once it's back online, so I'll never miss a message from friends.
[23:43:19]
<just_a_rock> Yeah exactly
[23:44:24]
<just_a_rock> I looked at SimpleX Chat & I do like it & see uses for it, but they just don't fit my main use cases for an instant messenger.
[23:44:32]
<stellarorion> Well, on SimpleX you also get messages when you're offline. The server/servers wait for you to get back online. By default you're on 3-4 official servers and you can add your own
[23:44:46]
<just_a_rock> Oh nice!
[23:45:54]
<just_a_rock> But how is moderation on it? If someone is harassing you, they can't really be banned & you can't really block them since they could just reroll their "account" & be on a fresh one.
[23:46:16]
<stellarorion> Not sure how long the holding phase is or how it actually works, but when you join a public group, all the old old old chats are visible to you. So I think it's a combination of users sending the messages to all users
[23:46:52]
<stellarorion> > But how is moderation on it? If someone is harassing you, they can't really be banned & you can't really block them since they could just reroll their "account" & be on a fresh one.
Just disable the invite link or set it to manual approvals
[23:48:11]
<just_a_rock> Something close to what Discord is, but secure, is what I want & need. Matrix is the closest thing to that but it's still not secure. Despite not being secure it's still better because as far as I know no one is actively attacking Matrix homeservers & users to scrape messages.
[23:48:16]
<just_a_rock> > <stellarorion> > But how is moderation on it? If someone is harassing you, they can't really be banned & you can't really block them since they could just reroll their "account" & be on a fresh one.
> Just disable the invite link or set it to manual approvals
Oh ok
[23:49:07]
<stellarorion> It's like on Discord. You don't have to accept the incoming chat
[23:49:42]
<stellarorion> But yes, it's marginally easier to create new accounts to spam I suppose
[23:51:15]
<stellarorion> The public SimpleX groups system is... interesting to say the least, but for your friends - just create one use links that you'll share with them and you're set. No spam possible since no one can know you really exist
[23:52:00]
<just_a_rock> Not just that though. Discord is super nice for its metachannels, metachannel moderation, role permissions system, & stuff like that. If Matrix added a proper custom role & permission system & rooms could inherit that information for each user from spaces it would be nearly perfect, except for the spaghetti code issues.
[23:52:52]
<stellarorion> SimpleX now also has desktop clients. You have to either create a new account or connect your phone via QR and local network connection
[23:52:56]
<just_a_rock> Matrix is most of the way there, & would probably be ahead if it weren't for project management issues.
[23:53:04]
<just_a_rock> Oh cool
[23:53:30]
<stellarorion> > Not just that though. Discord is super nice for its metachannels, metachannel moderation, role permissions system, & stuff like that. If Matrix added a proper custom role & permission system & rooms could inherit that information for each user from spaces it would be nearly perfect, except for the spaghetti code issues.
Most Matrix servers use bots for proper banning and moderation LOL because otherwise you'd have to ban user manually from each thread/room
[23:54:02]
<just_a_rock> I'm looking at the SimpleX Chat F-Droid page & it seems to have been updated since I last looked at it. I'll have to see what has changed.
[23:54:56]
<stellarorion> Their progress is slow, but usually drop huge updates at once with new features
[23:55:08]
<just_a_rock> > <stellarorion> > Not just that though. Discord is super nice for its metachannels, metachannel moderation, role permissions system, & stuff like that. If Matrix added a proper custom role & permission system & rooms could inherit that information for each user from spaces it would be nearly perfect, except for the spaghetti code issues.
> Most Matrix servers use bots for proper banning and moderation LOL because otherwise you'd have to ban user manually from each thread/room
Yeah exactly, it's frustrating. Users running spaces & chatrooms should have better moderation & room participant management tools & server owners should have better moderation tools.
[23:56:33]
<stellarorion> Matrix :shrug:
[23:57:42]
<just_a_rock> Matrix😔
[23:58:18]
<stellarorion> https://share.conversations.im/stellarorion/jdhizTvudIlT5Dmh/WZmkzCbBRk-RAf0gz4IkFQ.jpg
[23:58:18]
<stellarorion> https://share.conversations.im/stellarorion/ngtqDrnlcjyoZULK/V6hMuS8dTJuRrPJBBv--Rg.jpg
[23:58:19]
<stellarorion> https://share.conversations.im/stellarorion/1YVX2egRgUACHpZ9/2bk5sOKbTlWZL_iPSxr1AQ.jpg
[23:59:33]
<stellarorion> This is how it looks. You can create a persistent invite associated with your "profile" or just create one use addresses